Archive for October, 2012

posted by shelly on Oct 31

MyAdvocates Rob Jenner: Provides Legal & Medical Experts for Injured Patients

Janet, Jenner & Suggs represents people nationwide, providing attorneys and paralegals with medical backgrounds to review their cases and compile evidence that helps win their cases, explains Robert K. Jenner, firm partner and head of the Mass Torts Division. Because the firm operates in all states, it has the manpower to provide not only medical and legal expertise, but to offer each client personal attention, he points out. “You’re not going to get an answering machine. You’re not going to be stuck off in some corner or file. You’re going to have the name of a lawyer. You’re going to have the name of a paralegal that you can call at any time.” Robert K. Jenner has more than 25 years of experience representing injured consumers nationwide against the manufacturers of defective products, including medical devices and dangerous drugs. He has been honored by his peers for inclusion in “The Best Lawyers in America” and “Maryland’s Super Lawyers.” The firm has recovered tens of millions of dollars for its clients. For more information, call Janet, Jenner & Suggs, LLC, at (888) 463-3529 or visit our website:

posted by shelly on Oct 31 – “The Will of the Shogun” – Documentary
Video Rating: 4 / 5

Sierra Adamson breaks down this week’s WRC Wrap-Up. Become a WeAreChange Sponsor and get exclusive behind the scenes content while helping us grow! http:/// FAIR USE NOTICE: This video may contain copyrighted material. Such material is made available for educational purposes only. This constitutes a ‘fair use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided for in Title 17 USC section 107 of the US Copyright Law.
Video Rating: 4 / 5

posted by shelly on Oct 31

Question by teri: What do you think of this idea?
AP- WASHINGTON D.C. – In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s qualifications for the presidency, the group “Americans for Freedom of Information” has Released copies of President Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College .. Released today, the transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school. The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order.

The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must

Claim foreign citizenship. This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama’s detractors have been seeking. Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya and there is no record of him ever applying for US citizenship, this is looking pretty grim. The news has created a firestorm at the White House as the release casts increasing doubt about Obama’s legitimacy and qualification to serve as president.

When reached for comment in London , where he has been in meetings with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Obama smiled but refused comment on the issue.

Under growing pressure from several groups, Justice Antonin Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agreed on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning Obama’s legal eligibility to serve as President in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of New Jersey . This lawsuit claims Obama’s dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. Donofrio’s case is just one of 18 suits brought by citizens demanding proof of Obama’s citizenship or qualification to serve as president.

Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama’s campaign spending. This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $ 950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still ongoing but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. Attorney general.



Best answer:

Answer by Mercy
Don’t rely on others for your information. Do your own research.

What do you think? Answer below!

posted by shelly on Oct 31

Chapters 9-11 – “Children and Divorce” of “Family Matters: Choosing to Represent Yourself in Court”. Covering topics including mediation & counseling (2:37), parenting time (visitation) and completing child support forms (4:10). Video developed by (c) 2008 Indiana Supreme Court Division of State Court Administration.
Video Rating: 0 / 5

posted by shelly on Oct 30

Question by Divine Truth: As a JW, I am not for making prostitution legal but not for spiritual prostitution as well how do you see that?
Agnosticism Message Board by Yahoo, question Re: Who thinks prostitution should be legal?
Did you know religion mixing in government business is called [spiritual] prostitution in Revelation? And they influence laws on fleshly prostitution your talking about here. First Christians did not mix in government and war business so if they say they go by Bible laws they lie and that is all illegal by Bible law and not constitutionally legal by human law for them to force their kind of teachings on others by forced law! So might you like to see a challenge taken?
What can you do to help get that challenge up and running? Your choice if you like that idea. Expose the truth for peace and security! Get them to put their powers into peace and security not into your personal business by forced laws! That would be justice for all to get them out of our personal legal system business and do something really good for all of us, true? We all would likely agree peace and security would be nice right about now with all the world problems, true? Work on that ONLY Pat and other clergy! OK?
Pat, I challenge you not to a fight but to work with the United Nations to do their job they were set up to do and that is give us world wide true lasting Peace and Security! Do the solidarity idea with the whole U.N. not just Israel if you in truth believe the God of the Bible is on your side! Thank You, sincerely Nathan
Would it be a good humane community service for me to challenge Pat Robertson toward bringing peace?
And if people believe the U.N. not Jehovah can do it have the religious leaders show us! Is this true since dark ages “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says all religious leaders? History of first Christians, “A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [121-180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.” (The Rise of Christianity, by E. W. Barnes, 1947, p. 333) [cut some info here] “While they [the Christians] inculcated the maxims of passive obedience, they refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . It was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, Vol. I, p.. 416. Now see true history of those you hate without good cause other than the bigotry teachings from those mixing in your private personal business illegally by forcing their own will on you by influencing the legal law system. NOT WHAT FIRST CHRISTIANS DID! “without renouncing a more sacred duty” See same kind of people today who stay out of your personal life by not mixing in government to make laws to force you to do it our way! By coming to your door you have a choice to say yes or no to our message no matter how many times we come around. But if we went to court and made it a law all those who call themselves Christians have to go from door to door like we do and you will go to prison if you do not follow that law? And made laws like that forcing you not to mix in government or war business? Would you like us to do that? I know the answer you would give to that! NO WAY! So we are in your life from time to time but if we influenced legal law we would be in your face day and night. We want you to have free will choice not forced by human law to have to do it our way. Jehovah’s Witnesses want to come to you out of love but if you say no thanks we will just go to the next door until next time. You have a free choice our way but if we influenced the law you would not. Loving and simple, true? See our way here:
Contact Pat by way of his legal firm here:
I like to make hard copies of this info to send to those Expose Truth is challenging, so will now make copies!
Greg Palast investigates… Pat Robertson
Christianity Incorporated
Observer, London May 23, 1999

If this link above is true about Pat Robertson the challenge will expose him as needed and others here too:
Sister you said, “you seem to be very obsessed with Pat Robertson”. How to put this so you understand. Years ago I said no to the state of Oregon in a unique case where now all important info is gone. So I cannot fight it in court without that needed proof. It became a church and state case but ignored back at that time and how nice for the state the proof is not there now! A religious leaders influence was making the calls and you know their attitude toward us. I believed all was well after all these years it was dead and gone but not so. I do not have the proof so it looks bad and I cannot show otherwise. Jehovah and I know what happened and one attorney that one is part of this system and therefore will not help. The only thing I could see that might work is what I know about true Christians in Jesus day and their not mixing in government or war business back at that time and Jehovah’s Witnesses are just like them. But not the Pat Robertson kind and a lot of proof there so the…
E·li´jah like challenge, “Then E·li´jah approached all the people and said: “How long will YOU be limping upon two different opinions? If Jehovah is the [true] God, go following him; but if Ba´al is, go following him.” (1 Kings 18:21) and before all the people. And I am a shy brother so a form like this is my stage to get the challenge out before all the people. And the way things came together like it has seems divine it has. I pray all the time that be the truth in fact. I was not looking for Pat he just happened to be the one with all the proof more so than any other at this time. He fits all Revelation says about that kind of religion and religious leader. I did not set up to be that kind, he is doing it all by himself. So my stone of truth goes to that self made Goliath the Great. I was not out the be David but my circumstances put there. Jehovah will? Time will tell! True? I Jehovah and the brotherhood and only want what is good for it and hope that comes from this odd case! HOPE
I [LOVE] Jehovah and the brotherhood and only want what is good for it and hope that comes from this odd case! I HOPE! I hate it when I leave out words and have no more characters left to work with. I see I left out other woods also. But I think you can make out what I mean. Well I will now make a hard copy now too of this last part here.
First thank you brothers and sister, I really hope my circumstances get turned around soon. But they are deeper than I can go into detail on. And what was said here, (I would email you this but your email is blocked.) I do not know just how to work all these things on these computers and many times when I try to set them up they will not work. And what mind and time I have left is focused on trying to make my point. I love you brothers and sisters and Jehovah willing we all meet some day. In the year 2000 after a convention I prayed to do something great for Jehovah name because of the odd and unique way I got to and staid at that convention. I was not the first time something like that happened to me around convention time and I know others have had things like that happen too. But this one was so unique I had to pray my most sincere prayer ever. And I could tell I got an answer. But I did not know how or how long it would be to work out. I give up a good job to do more in service..
but the Devil went after me in so many ways from within and outside the faith. We never know just what the Devil will be allowed to do to us and from where he will kick us next. When I was just kind of setting back all was well. But as soon as I started to take real right action I got it from all sides. But the biggest test and things came from way back that naive me believed was dead forever! And it all came from one unique civil court case. And I have no proof to show what happened there. But knowing the anti-christ mix of church and state was against Jehovah’s high standard laws and both working against me the only fight left I had was to go after the church illegal mixing in state business. And I keep running into all kind of things about Pat Robertson even out right saying God’s name is Jehovah and all other religions worship demans. And yet he himself will not hallow his name daily on his TV religious show. And he is friends with the kingdoms Jesus would not take from the Devil..
at Matthew 4:8-10 “Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.” Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” So who is he giving sacred service to if not Jehovah and friends and backers of those kingdoms Jesus would not take because he would have worship the Devil have those kingdoms. So is my focus in the right place under my unique circumstances? The only thing standing between me and getting things fixed seems to be the head of Goliath of our day. And since we do not kill, I do not mean that in a real way. My stone is the stone of Bible truth. The Goliath today is big in riches and world power now. One person fits that fact well. And my problems came from an unfaithful person who left Jah!
Last note, yes, a unfaithful person who left Jehovah went against Jehovah’s way of doing things and from there I was in the Devil’s system with their church and state mixed low standard rules which I could not bow down to. And in so many words that fact came out in court but was ignored. But those court records are not now around to my knowledge and if they are the only needed facts needed is they did in deed over look my religious rights. That means the state did wrong by the influence of religions of other faiths that do mix in their business illegally by Bible law and the human constitution of the USA humane just laws! Justice for us/me all would be to un-mix church of state in ALL areas as a money making business putting on a show of being a religion! Matthew 6:24 “No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. YOU cannot slave for God and for Riches.” I love Jehovah does Pat and his kind?
I will again make a copy of the above info hoping all will like to see Pat Robertson and his kind take my Goliath big challenge to show us who you really are in truth! If your only a Mafia con like business you need to be put out of business big time NOW! But if you believe you’r a real religion let us see proof! If you have the God of the Bible on your side and believe he backs you work with the U.N. for what we all need and that is true lasting peace and security earth wide! Can you did it? I challenge you to show us you can! You must take this challenge or get out of business, NOW! Do you religious leaders of the world hear my divine challenge? You have little choice but to take it! So go for it, NOW! 6/1/09
Brothers and sisters in the past I would have never put a challenge like this out to religious leaders but Jehovah does know all that went down and why it did and knows my unique circumstances I cannot get out of under normal ways. And recall Jehovah could have taken Goliath out by himself but let David do it. And I was put here by circumstances beyond my control if only I could give details you would know. All I wanted to do is be out in service full time and do all things in a normal way but as yet I have not been able yet to do that because things beyond my control got right in my way. So please do not judge things you know not all the true facts of. Just know Jehovah knows well my one of a kind odd circumstances and I have seen his hand still with me. If I have Jehovah on my side, all will work out well no matter how it might look right now. Jehovah’s greatest enemy is Babylon the great and if my circumstances puts me right where I can point her out to the nations so be it! Willdo!
James 4:4-6 “Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God. Or does it seem to YOU that the scripture says to no purpose: “It is with a tendency to envy that the spirit which has taken up residence within us keeps longing”? However, the undeserved kindness which he gives is greater. Hence it says: “God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.”
Lover of Bible truth posted this 7 months ago about friendship with the world:
Do the clergy get it that the ways of the world are against Jehovah’s righteous ways and since the Devil owns the human governments and their waring killing ways you cannot change it by mixing in it? It will make you as haughty as it is and Jehovah will oppose you and you cannot change the world if you are just like it.Become humble
kerika26 Said in part,”Don’t let it get you down. I actually thought about writing letters about the Kingdom good news to some celebrities and enclosing a tract, hoping they get it, since I don’t know how often they are able to be reached.” kerika26, My ex-wife did that and some got back to her, very fomous ones. She got a book at the library named something like Who’s who in celebrities or near that name. I cannot recall the names I saw she got answers back from but real famous. kerika26, I like how you put it here, “Some will always disagree with the way you handle a call in any setting. They may be right or wrong.” And I agree they many be right or wrong. Or I could be. What keeps me going is that prayer I prayed after the convention in the year 2000 about doing something great for Jehovah’s name. About a year or so later I give up a job to put kingdom interest first but the Devil has been allowed to kick me around big time. Not knowing those facts elders have not been kind to me… a area I was not known well in. So I had to move near but not yet back to where the brothers who know me are. But those with a wrong attitude toward me was sent here with more who know me not. And knowing I have no proof what went down in court I fear even trying to talk with the elders here. I feel like David having to stay away from king saul so not to be done in for. And yet I have been faithful all these years but have no proof to show that is a fact. So I cannot get help from the brothers here and I will not go stay a the churches that help the homeless because to stay there I would have to go to their church meeting which I will not do. So it is Jehovah and me until I can get the proof needed or get the religious leaders to take my challenge and that would be proof they should not be mixing in the human legal law system with their low standard teachings not from the Bible like people think they are doing. In court it was said I have to obey God when a conflict of law comes!
[I hate this 1000 characters thing] In so many words that was said. So is my circumstances unique? I know of nothing like it in our day. Not to say ALL of us have our own test in one way or other that might be unique to each of us only. But mind seems to come down to one of two things unless I am over looking another way. But of the two the challenge would do more good than just fixing my little case. And if that challenge is taken and does a great thing for Jehovah’s great name my prayer would be answered and all things the Devil was allowed to put in my way would be little next to putting Jehovah on high where it rightly should be. With that out of the way I can go to the convention knowing my prayer in the year 2000 was in deed answers in full! Now all I will need is the money to get there on. The one nearest me will be in July which I will have to go look to know the date. My old 62 year old mind fights to recall things now days. But I can do the homeless thing well for Jehovah!…
kerika26, you will likely be my best answer because you put things well, thank you. But Jehovah be with all of you and ALL of us let us stay faithful no matter what the Devil is allowed to do to us. Jehovah will only allow what we can take and no more. So be FAITHFUL! We may have more to come yet! But do not fear stay faithful! Love Nathan [middle name for privacy]

Best answer:

What do you think? Answer below!

posted by shelly on Oct 30

Question by Maria: Is it bad to apply to too many jobs? Like sending 300 emails to law firms in one city?
By law firms I mean partners.??

Best answer:

Answer by Karla
I think yes

Know better? Leave your own answer in the comments!

posted by shelly on Oct 30

A video of excerpts from California DUI attorney Lawrence Taylor’s keynote lecture at the North Carolina Trial Lawyer Academy to over 100 lawyers. Part 1

posted by shelly on Oct 30

Peter Joseph – Arriving at a Resource Based Economy | London Z Day 2011, March 13th. Thanks to Jason Gleeson
Video Rating: 4 / 5

posted by shelly on Oct 29

Question by Knowing: would this help with law firms in the future here in the US?
I have a very close aunt that is a high-ranking federal court judge overseas. If I become a law clerk at her court, would that still help with my job opportunities here in the states? Or am I recommended to do clerkship in the US?

Best answer:

Answer by stephen t
I am an attorney. However, I went to a top 15 school and had mediocre grades. I found the job market to be depressing. So much time, planning, and money went into undergraduate school, I had a 4.0 GPA, and scored above the 95th percentile on the LSAT. I naively thought going to a top school their would be plenty of lucrative and exciting jobs waiting for me and I would be set to have a good quality of life. I remember sending out 300 letters one time and getting no positive response, either they said some nonsense about you are great, you have good accomplishments, but at this time we cannot offer you a position, we will keep your resume on file. I took the Bar Exam in two states wasting time studying and not earning any money. I had to move back in with my parents, fun. Meanwhile many of my friends and people that I knew from High School and College were establishing themselves in their careers and making money, gettng promotions, etc. I worked post-law school as a car salesman and a mortgage broker. Finally a family friend had a friend who was a solo attorney, I worked for him basically for free, actually it was negative because I spent money on travel, long distance phone calls, etc., still living at home with mom and dad, saddled with law school debts, the student loan people started calling wanting $ $ $ . Eventually I left that attorney. I struggled to find another attorney job. Eventually, I got a job in 2003 at firm paying the princely sum of $ 25,000 per year. I moved out of my parent’s house but was still subsidized by them. Dad kept threatening to cut me off, but I lived in an expensive state the cheapest place to stay I found was $ 1,500 a month all inclusive. My paycheck was like $ 430.00 a week take home. Eventually, I did go solo, it was hard, but I did make some money in real estate closings for 3 1/2 years. Now the real estate market stinks and I have no income, and I am trying to plan my next move, which may be back to my parents temporarily. I have interviewed for some associate positions and the salary range was 38k-55k, this is pretty low for somone with 5 yrs experience and a doctorate degree. My wife works at a nail salon, as a manicurist, she took a three month course and makes 50K a year. It has been an exquisitely painful road for me. In my family I am the most educated and the least financially secure. My dad makes like $ 350,000K engineering+MBA degree, my younger sister makes $ 165,000K a year psyche degree and an MBA. My conclusion, LAW SUCKS!!!!!!!!!! Too many law schools fighting for tuition $ $ $ , night programs, weekend programs, low academic standards, too many attorneys, lowering wages and limiting opportunities, compare to the AMA and ADA that insure a shortage of dentists and doctors. When I was solo it seemed like everyone was an attorney, or their cousin was an attorney, or their sister’s friend was an attorney, or their brother was an attorney and so and so on, I lost a lot of business because of this. I do not think doctors and dentists face such client poaching. If you are in the top 5%, law review, and went to a good school, yes, you will probably get a good job right from the start. I would have been better off not going to College and instead picking up a trade like being an electrician. Heck, if I had all the money I wasted on education, worked at a gas station during all my non-earning years and put the money into a CD I could probably be able to retire. Looking back, if I had to do it again, if you want to through the hard work and invest the $ $ $ for education so it pays off you should go into healthcare. Heck their is a shortage of pharmacists and their median wage is $ 98,000K well above lawyers. Dentists 180,000K median and their is a shortage. Oh well this sucks but this is my life and I will deal with it, I spent my educational time and $ $ $ , and the dye is cast.
From US News, Poor careers for 2006
By Marty Nemko
Posted 1/5/06
Attorney. If starting over, 75 percent of lawyers would choose to do something else. A similar percentage would advise their children not to become lawyers. The work is often contentious, and there’s pressure to be unethical. And despite the drama portrayed on TV, real lawyers spend much of their time on painstakingly detailed research. In addition, those fat-salaried law jobs go to only the top few percent of an already high-powered lot.

Many people go to law school hoping to do so-called public-interest law. (In fact, much work not officially labeled as such does serve the public interest.) What they don’t teach in law school is that the competition for those jobs is intense. I know one graduate of a Top Three law school, for instance, who also edited a law journal. She applied for a low-paying job at the National Abortion Rights Action League and, despite interviewing very well, didn’t get the job.

From the Associated Press, MADISON, Wis. (AP) – A lawmaker who persuaded the Assembly to eliminate all state funding for the University of Wisconsin law school says his reasoning is simple: There’s too many lawyers in Wisconsin.

From an ABA study about malpractice claims, More Sole Practicioners: There appears to be an increasing trend toward sole practicioners, due partly to a lack of jobs for new lawyers, but also due to increasing dissatisfaction among experienced lawyers with traditional firms; leading to some claims which could have been avoided with better mentoring.

New Lawyers: Most insurers have noticed that many young lawyers cannot find jobs with established firms, and so are starting their own practices without supervision or mentoring. This is likely to cause an increase in malpractice claims, although the claims may be relatively small in size due to the limited nature of a new lawyers

“In a survey conducted back in 1972 by the American Bar Association, seventy percent of Americans not only didn’t have a lawyer, they didn’t know how to find one. That’s right, thirty years ago the vast majority of people didn’t have a clue on how to find a lawyer. Now it’s almost impossible not to see lawyers everywhere you turn.

Hard Case: Job Market
Wanes for U.S. Lawyers
Growth of Legal Sector
Lags Broader Economy;
Law Schools Proliferate
September 24, 2007; Page A1

A law degree isn’t necessarily a license to print money these days.

For graduates of elite law schools, prospects have never been better. Big law firms this year boosted their starting salaries to as high as $ 160,000. But the majority of law-school graduates are suffering from a supply-and-demand imbalance that’s suppressing pay and job growth. The result: Graduates who don’t score at the top of their class are struggling to find well-paying jobs to make payments on law-school debts that can exceed $ 100,000. Some are taking temporary contract work, reviewing documents for as little as $ 20 an hour, without benefits. And many are blaming their law schools for failing to warn them about the dark side of the job market.

The law degree that Scott Bullock gained in 2005 from Seton Hall University — where he says he ranked in the top third of his class — is a “waste,” he says. Some former high-school friends are earning considerably more as plumbers and electricians than the $ 50,000-a-year Mr. Bullock is making as a personal-injury attorney in Manhattan. To boot, he is paying off $ 118,000 in law-school debt.

“Unfortunately, some find the practice of law is not for them,” Seton Hall’s associate dean, Kathleen Boozang, said through a spokeswoman. “However, it is our experience that a legal education is a tremendous asset for a variety of professional paths.”

A slack in demand appears to be part of the problem. The legal sector, after more than tripling in inflation-adjusted growth between 1970 and 1987, has grown at an average annual inflation-adjusted rate of 1.2% since 1988, or less than half as fast as the broader economy, according to Commerce Department data.


Join a discussion on the state of the legal market.Some practice areas have declined in recent years: Personal-injury and medical-malpractice cases have been undercut by state laws limiting class-action suits, out-of-state plaintiffs and payouts on damages. Securities class-action litigation has declined in part because of a buoyant stock market.

On the supply end, more lawyers are entering the work force, thanks in part to the accreditation of new law schools and an influx of applicants after the dot-com implosion earlier this decade. In the 2005-06 academic year, 43,883 Juris Doctor degrees were awarded, up from 37,909 for 2001-02, according to the American Bar Association. Universities are starting up more law schools in part for prestige but also because they are money makers. Costs are low compared with other graduate schools and classrooms can be large. Since 1995, the number of ABA-accredited schools increased by 11%, to 196.

Evidence of a squeezed market among the majority of private lawyers in the U.S., who work as sole practitioners or at small firms, is growing. A survey of about 650 Chicago lawyers published in the 2005 book “Urban Lawyers” found that between 1975 and 1995 the inflation-adjusted average income of the top 25% of earners, generally big-firm lawyers, grew by 22% — while income for the other 75% actually dropped.

According to the Internal Revenue Service, the inflation-adjusted average income of sole practitioners has been flat since the mid-1980s. A recent survey showed that out of nearly 600 lawyers at firms of 10 lawyers or fewer in Indiana, wages for the majority only kept pace with inflation or dropped in real terms over the past five years.

The news isn’t any better for the 14% of new lawyers who go into government or join public-interest firms. Inflation-adjusted starting salaries for graduates who go to work for public-interest firms or the government rose 4% and 8.6%, respectively, between 1994 and 2006, according to the National Association for Law Placement, which aggregates graduate surveys from law schools. That compares with at least an 11% jump in the median family income during the same period, according to the Census Bureau. Graduates who become in-house company lawyers, about 9%, have fared better: Their salaries rose by nearly 14% during the same period.

Many students “simply cannot earn enough income after graduation to support the debt they incur,” wrote Richard Matasar, dean of New York Law School, in 2005, concluding that, “We may be reaching the end of a golden era for law schools.”

Meanwhile, the prospects for big-firm lawyers are growing richer. While offering robust minimum salaries, those firms are paying astronomical amounts to their stars.

Now, debate is intensifying among law-school academics over the integrity of law schools’ marketing campaigns. Defenders argue that the legal profession always has been openly and proudly a meritocracy: Top entrance-exam scores help win admittance to top schools where top students win jobs at top firms. Even the system that is used to issue law-school grades — a curve that pits student against student — reflects the law profession’s competitiveness.

David Burcham, dean of Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, considered second-tier, says the school makes no guarantees to students that they will obtain jobs. He says it is problematic that big firms only interview the top of the class, “but that’s the nature of the employment market; it’s never been different.”

For the majority of students and alumni, he says, Loyola “turned out to be a good investment.”

Yet economic data suggest that prospects have grown bleaker for all but the top students, and now a number of law-school professors are calling for the distribution of more-accurate employment information. Incoming students are “mesmerized by what’s happening in big firms, but clueless about what’s going on in the bottom half of the profession,” says Richard Sander, a law professor at the University of California-Los Angeles who has studied the legal job market.

“Prospective students need solid comparative data on employment outcomes, [but] very few law schools provide such data,” adds Andrew Morriss, a law professor at the University of Illinois who has studied the market for new lawyers.

Students entering law school have little way of knowing how tight a job market they might face. The only employment data that many prospective students see comes from school-promoted surveys that provide a far-from-complete portrait of graduate experiences. Tulane University, for example, reports to U.S. News & World Report magazine, which publishes widely watched annual law-school rankings, that its law-school graduates entering the job market in 2005 had a median salary of $ 135,000. But that is based on a survey that only 24% of that year’s graduates completed, and those who did so likely represent the cream of the class, a Tulane official concedes.

On its Web site, the school currently reports an average starting salary of $ 96,356 for graduates in private practice but doesn’t include what percentage of graduates reported salaries for the survey.

“It’s within most individuals’ nature to keep that information private, unless it’s a high amount,” says Carlos Dávila-Caballero, assistant dean for career development at Tulane, who adds that his office tells prospective students to use the median figure as a guide because starting salaries vary widely.

Academics who have studied new-lawyer salaries say that the graduate surveys of many law schools are skewed by higher response rates from the most successful students. The National Association for Law Placement, which aggregates and publishes national data based on those surveys, concedes that it can’t vouch for their accuracy. “We can’t validate the figures; we have to rely on schools to report to us accurately,” says Judy Collins, NALP’s director of research.

A prospective student studying NALP data might conclude that the study of law is a sure path to financial security. For 2006 graduates who entered private practice, or nearly 60%, NALP shows a national median salary of $ 95,000, a rise of 40%, adjusted for inflation, from 1994 graduates.

The NALP data also show that the percentage of graduates employed in private practice has been steady, fluctuating between 55% and 58% for more than a decade. But in law schools’ self-published employment data, “private practice” doesn’t necessarily mean jobs that improve long-term career prospects, for that category can include lawyers working under contract without benefits, such as Israel Meth. A 2005 graduate of Brooklyn Law School, he earns about $ 30 an hour as a contract attorney reviewing legal documents for big firms. He says he uses 60% of his paycheck to pay off student loans — $ 100,000 for law school on top of $ 100,000 for the bachelor’s degree he received from Columbia University.

A glossy admissions brochure for Brooklyn Law School, considered second-tier, reports a median salary for recent graduates at law firms of well above $ 100,000. But that figure doesn’t reflect all incomes of graduates at firms; fewer than half of graduates at firms responded to the survey, the school reported to U.S. News. On its Web site, the school reports that 41% of last year’s graduates work for firms of more than 100 lawyers, but it fails to mention that that percentage includes temporary attorneys, often working for hourly wages without benefits, Joan King, director of the school’s career center, concedes.

Ms. King says she believes the figures for her school accurately represent the broader graduating class. She says the number of contract attorneys is “minimal” but declined to give a number.

The University of Richmond School of Law in the last couple of years started to be more open about its employment statistics; it now breaks out how many of its grads work as contract attorneys. Of 57 2006 graduates working in private practice, for example, seven were contract employees nine months after graduation. Schools “should be sharing more information than they are now,” says Joshua Burstein, associate dean for career services who put the changes in place. “Most people graduating from law school,” he says, “are not going to be earning big salaries.”

Adding to the burden for young lawyers: Tuition growth at law schools has almost tripled the rate of inflation over the past 20 years, leading to higher debt for students and making starting salaries for most graduates less manageable, especially in expensive cities. Graduates in 2006 of public and private law schools had borrowed an average of $ 54,509 and $ 83,181, up 17% and 18.6%, respectively, from the amount borrowed by 2002 graduates, according to the American Bar Association.

Students taking on such debt may feel reassured by incessant press reports of big firms scrambling to hire and keep associates. Making headlines this year was a bump up in big-firm starting salaries to $ 160,000 from $ 145,000 in many cities.

And indeed, some law graduates of lower-tier schools do find high-paying private-practice law jobs. In recent years big firms have boomed thanks in part to the globalization of business and Wall Street deal making; firms have been casting a wider net for new lawyers, though they still generally restrict their recruiting at lower-tier schools to students at the very top of the class or on the law review. Some students have leads on a job at a family member’s or friend’s practice.

But just as common — and much less publicized — are experiences such as that of Sue Clark, who this year received her degree from second-tier Chicago-Kent College of Law, one of six law schools in the Chicago area. Despite graduating near the top half of her class, she has been unable to find a job and is doing temp work “essentially as a paralegal,” she says. “A lot of people, including myself, feel frustrated about the lack of jobs,” she says.

Harold Krent, Chicago-Kent’s dean, said it’s not uncommon for new lawyers to wait a few months to more than a year to find a job that’s a good fit. He added that there is a “small spike” in employment after his school’s grads receive their bar-exam results, several months after graduation, because some firms wait until then before hiring.

The market is particularly tough in big cities that boast numerous law schools. Mike Altmann, 29, a graduate of New York University who went to Brooklyn Law School, says he accumulated $ 130,000 in student-loan debt and graduated in 2002 with no meaningful employment opportunities — one offer was a $ 33,000 job with no benefits. So Mr. Altmann became a contract attorney, reviewing electronic documents for big firms for around $ 20 to $ 30 an hour, and hasn’t been able to find higher-paying work since.

Some un- or underemployed grads are seeking consolation online, where blogs and discussion boards have created venues for shared commiseration that didn’t exist before. An anonymous writer called Loyola 2L, purportedly a student at Loyola Law School, who claims the school wasn’t straight about employment prospects, has been beating a drum of discontent around the Web in the past year that’s sparked thousands of responses, and a fan base. (“2L” stands for second-year law student.) Some thank “L2L” for articulating their plight; others claim L2L should complain less and work more. Loyola’s Dean Burcham says he wishes he knew who the student was so he could help the person. “It’s expensive to go to law school, and there are times when you second-guess yourself as a student,” he says.

Some new lawyers try to hang their own shingle. Matthew Fox Curl graduated in 2004 from second-tier University of Houston in the bottom quarter of his class. After months of job hunting, he took his first job working for a sole practitioner focused on personal injury in the Houston area and made $ 32,000 in his first year. He quickly found that tort-reform legislation has been “brutal” to Texas plaintiffs’ lawyers and last year left the firm to open up his own criminal-defense private practice.

He’s making less money than at his last job and has thought about moving back to his parents’ house. “I didn’t think three years out I’d be uninsured, thinking it’s a great day when a crackhead brings me $ 500.”

–Mark Whitehouse contributed to this article.

P.S. I ran into the same problem. Non-lawyer jobs thought I would quit or I was just waiting to get an attorney job. That is why I always find it odd when people talk about the many uses for a law degree, for me it was detriment and sometimes I would not list it when going for a job. I knew other classmates that worked in the tie department of a store and another one that was a waiter. I did an internship for a Congressman on Capitol Hill.

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posted by shelly on Oct 29

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